tv This Week With George Stephanopoulos ABC November 13, 2016 10:00am-11:00am PST
>> announcer: starting right now on "this week with george stephanopoulos" -- >> i love this country. >> announcer: after a stunning victory -- >> i look forward to being with you many, many more times in the future. thank you. >> announcer: a president-elect who's never served in office prepares to be commander in chief. >> we will build a great wall. we are going to drain the swamp. >> announcer: will he keep his campaign promises? how will he separate his business interests from the oval office? and -- [ chanting "no trump no kkk no racist usa" ] >> announcer: can he unite a divided nation? we ask the vice chair of the trump transition team, rudy
karl, martha raddatz, brian ross and "the new york times" columnist tom friedman. >> announcer: plus after a crushing loss -- >> this is painful and it will be for a long time. >> announcer: how will they redefine their path forward? we ask keith ellison. and -- >> now it's time for america to bind the wounds of division. >> announcer: with the country struggling to unite what happens next? from abc news, it's "this week." here now, chief anchor, george stephanopoulos. good morning. the shock of the new this week after the biggest upset in american political history, this unforgett unforgettable, once unimaginable image. donald trump side-by-side with president obama in the oval office. soon it will be his office, his home. as america wrestles with it the first answers from that famous skyscraper where our future government is taking shape. trump tower is buzzes with intensity.
loyalist, advisers and wanna-bes all jockeying for position and the man at the center soon to be the world's most powerful now shoulders the hopes and dreams of millions of americans, the fear and anxiety of millions more. >> it is time for us to come together as one united people. >> from his moment of victory, a kinder, gentler talking highly of his opponent who he promised to jail. >> we owe her a major debt of gratitude for her service to our country. >> deference to the president whose legitimacy he questioned. >> mr. president, it was a great honor being with you and i look forward to being with you, many, many more times in the future. thank you. >> respect for the republican leaders he denounced. >> i think we're going to do some absolutely spectacular things for the american people. >> but away from the rituals of washington alongside the elation of trump supporters, there is deep anxiety, anger and fear.
>> protests four nights running. >> you are under arrest. >> thousands marching across the country. on twitter, trump dismissed them as professionals then praised their passion too. on social media, vicious racist images, schoolkids taunting minorities. >> white power. >> so how will a president trump bind those wounds rubbed so raw by his campaign? which promises will he keep? which will how congress and the world responding to this. it's an earth-shaking change. >> secretary clinton has conceded to donald trump. >> donald trump will be the 45th president. >> he has pulled off something that no one believed he could do. >> defeating hillary clinton unlike anything we've seen in our lifetime. >> and we're going to examine all of those questions this morning, starting with the latest on the transition. starting from our chief white house
our chief global affairs anchor martha raddatz. our chief investigative correspondent brian ross and, jon, let me begin with you and know mike pence, vice president-elect mike pence will be in charge of replacing chris chris tee -- christie, and next big decision, chief of staff. two names talked about the most, steve bannon, reince priebus, both allies but they send quite a different message. >> reporter: george, i am told that decision could come as soon as today. it is hard to imagine a choice more stark than the choice between reince priebus, the chairman of the republican party, a clear establishment figure and stephen bannon, a leader of the right wing, breitbart news network. somebody who spent most of the time beating up on the republican establishment. i can tell you, george, that congressional leaders on the republican side are hoping it is priebus. they see priebus as somebody who they can clearly work with. but conservative activist, tea party activists are threatening donald trump that if he chooses reince priebus, he will lose much of his base of support. they are telling him not to do that. they want bannon, somebody who
years trying to destroy speaker ryan. >> who knows? he may surprise us and pick someone else. it gets broader, and republicans will control the white house and both houses of congress. where does president trump defer to those republican leaders and take them on? >> well, the republican leadership is quite hopeful at this time that they will have wide trump is a big visionary guy, and not a detail guy, obviously. they are preparing to charge ahead with a republican, a conservative agenda that paul ryan talked about a lot on the campaign trail, a lot of that, of course, will depend on who the person is on his right-hand side whether bannon or priebus. >> not too many clues from trump himself in the first week and he mentioned infrastructure, and immigration and jobs. and then on obamacare, said he wants to replace it and repeal
the position plan and that kids can stay on their parents' health plans until the age of 26. >> yeah, from the conservatives couple of years especially from people like ted cruz was repeal obamacare, every single word of obamacare. that is not the message from the donald trump and on infrastructure, there's a potential for him to reach out to democrats. he's talking about infrastructure spending far in excess of what any republicans would have considered under a democratic president. so you have some mixed signals. the other thing i would add to that list, i am told very early on in this transition process to expect that trump will announce his nominee for the supreme court. that will be something designed to very much please conservatives even as they may get a little nervous on some of what he's talk in terms of obamacare and infrastructure. >> okay, jon, let's move on to national security with martha raddatz and personnel will matter so much here as well. our next guest rudy giuliani talked about possibly as secretary of state. you've got this general mike
for national security adviser, perhaps, but also talk about some establishment figures like george w. bush's steve hadley for department of defense? >> steve hadley, that's an outlier for sure, but he is very experienced. he may be national security adviser but i think that would be a hard choice for mr. trump to make, president-elect trump to make because general flynn, he's very comfortable with. and you know in that position you have to be very comfortable with someone like that whispering in your ear about national security, so i general flynn is probably the top contender for that job. secretary of state, maybe they would consider steve hadley for that job. richard haass, there are people from the council on foreign relations and administration official many years ago under george h.w. bush. there are always names floated. newt gingrich's name is out there. sometimes you just want to make
floating those names. i think this will play out over the next several weeks but this is a huge decision. this is where he he has the least experience. he will have to rely on people with experience. >> he said he would rip up the iran nuclear agreement. renegotiate nafta. >> well, i think they would really like to rip up that agreement and get a new one, but that's going to be very difficult. you, of course, have russia involved in that. and i think the question is what do they do in the meantime? i listened this week, rick renel an old u.n. hand on fox news talking about really pressing to see if the iranians are violating any of the terms of the agreement. really press them on that, and make sure there is full compliance. i think you will see that in the coming months that they will just talk tougher. nafta and -- >> american advisers on the ground in syria and iraq and trump suggesting to "the wall street journal" he would stop aiding the rebels, fighting
>> yes. comfort to putin there. again, so what does he do? president-elect trump has promised a safe zone, a humanitarian zone. do you put u.s. troops on the ground? do you try to get other troops on the ground? and he's also promised an intelligence search. mike flynn knows a lot about that. tactically mike flynn has been fantastic with intelligence when he was in the military and they'll be looking at that. if you have good intelligence that truly does put -- mean putting troops on the ground in some way. >> let's move on to the legal outstanding lawsuits now for donald trump including trump university in court this week. >> that's right. he was a major real estate developer and they sue and get sued all the time and of those hundreds of lawsuits, we're told 30 are significant. there's pressure for him to settle that. the suit before he goes into office. that could happen. as well, we know as a real estate developer, he has hundreds of millions in debt. in loans. he borrows money for often all kinds of people around the world including more than $100 million from a german bank now under federal investigation.
he has said it's going to be given to his children to run at the same time we saw his children appointed to formal roles in the transition. a lot of ethics experts looking at that saying that is not a blind trust. >> experts on both sides, both parties say that. turn over the operation to his three children, donald jr., eric and ivanka. that's not a blind trust. according to the experts we talked to, they are involved now in choosing the next government. it's really a situation that no other president had in years and years. he clearly is not going to follow the idea that generally there is no rule that requires this but there generally is a situation which people are required to put their interests to the side so they don't have a conflict. >> all recent presidents have done that. as you point out, the president is exempt from the conflict of interest rules that all other administrations -- administration officials must abide by. >> it's a common practice, but not required by law. >> brian ross, martha, thank you, jon karl as well. a top trump adviser and vice chair of the transition, rudy
thank you for joining us this morning. congratulations on the victory. so is this true? you want to be secretary of state? not to create more rumors. so that's between him and me but i'm happy to answer any other >> whatever i want to be i'll discuss with the president-elect. that's the best way to do it. not to create more rumors. so that's between him and me but i'm happy to answer any other questions. >> i'll just do one follow-up on that. is it fair to say that you would like to serve president trump? i'd like to have with him. i'm very happy in my law practices and my security firm. i work all over the world. i have a very, very full life. so it would have to be something where i felt he really needed me and not that i'd be the only one that could do it but maybe that i could do it a little different or better than somebody else. >> as a follow-up on his campaign promises,
prosecutor for hillary clinton and says he has other priorities. do you think it would be a good idea to go forward with that? >> that's a tough one. george, it really is. as a lawyer i hate to use the one hand but the other but on the one hand you don't want to disrupt the nation with what might look like a vindictive profession even though it might not be violating the law, but on the other hand, you want equal justice under if she has violated the law the fbi never completed the foundation investigation. that's as far as i know that is still an ongoing investigation. that they completed the e-mail investigation but not the foundation investigation. exactly what you do with that i guess the next attorney general will have to figure that out. i don't know if that will be me or not but the next attorney general would have to figure that out and i'm going to make a guess, not a definitive statement. i would think if you had to make a decision like that you'd give that to an independent counsel.
apoi -- appointee as, you know, the new president. we have a lot of precedent for that in the past. we've done that in the past. or maybe that you want to sort of put that behind you. i don't know. that's a tough decision. >> we saw secretary -- >> i can see why -- >> we saw secretary clinton reported today she believes that she would have won the election but for the interference of the fbi director james comey. your response to that? >> well, you know, i actually think it was obamacare. again, why you won an election of, you know, books that get written 20 years later. and being part of the campaign, we put up front in all of donald trump's speeches for the last two or three weeks not the fbi, but obamacare. that seemed to me to be the thing that moved the votes in michigan, that moved the votes in places where we -- pennsylvania, wisconsin, the
red and basically haven't been red since ronald reagan. i think obamacare was the bigger hit. the fact that those premiums hit on -- what was it, november 1st, right? >> such a closely divided election. secretary clinton won the popular vote in those three states you just mentioned. michigan, pennsylvania, wisconsin, and about 100,000 votes separated the two as well. how much of a mandate does president-elect trump have coming out of this close result? whether it's a close result or it isn't. you're the president of the united states. you have to act like the president of the united states. you're the person in charge. you have to set the agenda. that's how you get yourself re-elected by a much bigger number if you want to get re-elected. that's the way you govern the country. i mean the constitution of the united states doesn't change the powers of the president based on the number by which you get elected, and he has a pretty
much more than anybody thought. i think people thought that if he won he'd win by like one state the way president bush did. i mean he won by a sizable margin. i even believe he won a little after the election, i think if we spent a little more time in minnesota we would have won minnesota. >> you see a lot of anger in the streets this week. demonstrations every night since the election. i know you called the protesters cry babies earlier in the week buff seen incidents, racially charged incidents across the country right now. what should president-elect trump do to get that under control right now? >> first of all, i do have to ask the following. i feel very bad about that. but if those were donald trump people doing that after a hillary clinton election, i think a lot of people would be -- a lot more anger in the media at the fact that they're protesting a legitimately decided election.
understand their frustration. we certainly don't want to make it worse. i think they're exaggerating the fears of a donald trump presidency because they're coming off a campaign where they're very disappointed. i'm sure our supporters would have been very disappointed had donald trump not won and i just hope it calms down. now where it goes into violence, i have a zero tolerance for riots. you know, took over a city that had two i had none, and they knew they couldn't riot on me,s and when i saw the people in the street in new york city, i said to myself, you're breaking giuliani's rules. you don't take my streets. you can have my sidewalks but you don't take my streets. because ambulances have to get through there, fire trucks have to get through there. people die when you crowd the streets of new york city with protesters. you can do plenty of protesting on the sidewalk. so, you know, i would ask them to please respect -- i'd ask them to please respect the
i know both secretary clinton and president obama were very gracious and i respect that a lot in the way they handled it the day after, two days after but i wish they would say something about it too. because after all these are supporters of president obama and hillary clinton and maybe they could say a something about this. >> they've said that everybody should -- president obama said that everybody should root for the success of president-elect trump. those are the protesters protesting prede what on those trump supporters out there, and we have seen several incidents of this, with racially charged intimidation of students and things like that? doesn't president-elect trump have some responsibility to say something about that? >> they -- they shouldn't be doing it either but i mean the major -- the major focus here is -- at least the one i was in one a couple of days ago where they saw me in the car and they
so these are not -- you know, i want to amend my statement a little bit. i'm not sure these are even hillary clinton, barack obama supporters. i think these people are, you know, kind of like professional protesters more. they didn't look to me like -- >> all those protesters in all those cities professionals? >> yes. you gather a certain number of people around you, but, you know they didn't look to me like people who were, you know, carefully studying political science and were all upset about, you know, the ideology of the election. >> you know, final question i want to get in what brian was talking about earlier. what do you think president-elect trump should do to assure people there won't be a mingling of his business interest and his governmental duties given that his children will be running it in now part
>> my advice would be that once he enters office there should be a separation -- a blind trust or some kind of blind trust. as brian pointed out, it's different in the case of a president. they have a lot more leeway in the way they can fashion it but i think, you know, for the good of the country and the fact that you don't want to question coming up every time there is a decision made, he should basically take himself out of it and just be a passive participant in the sense he has no decision-making, no involvement, and those decisions get made separate, sprit feparam him, and that's the way it's done in most cabinet officeoffi. i think all cabinet offices. >> mayor giuliani, thanks for your time this morning. >> thank you very much, george. when we come back what's next for the democrats. how will they recover from this crushing defeat? party chair candidate keith ellison is next plus analysis and insight from our "powerhouse roundtable" and tom friedman of "the new york times."
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and always working to be better. when president-elect trump wants to take on these issues, when his goal is to increase the economic security of middle class families, then count me in. >> i intend to work with president where he will, in fact, work for the middle class and working families in this country. i will vigorously oppose him if he appeals to racism or sexism. >> top democrats laying down their markers for how they'll work with president trump but who will take on the job of rebuilding the democratic party after tuesday's crushing defeat put republicans in control of the white house and congress? congressman keith ellison may be
al all i want to say is that anybody, well, from the democratic side of the fence who thinks that -- who's terrified of the possibility of president trump better vote, better get active, involved because this man has some momentum and we better be ready for the fact that he might be leading the republican ticket. >> i know you don't believe that but i want to go on. sorry. next -- >> you know, we had jesse ventura in minnesota win the governorship. nobody thought he would win. stranger things have happened. >> a prophetic congressman concession co-chair of the progressive caucus joins us now. thanks for joining us this
it turned out that democrats did not come out in the numbers they came out for for barack obama, 5 million fewer voters than in 2012. so, what went wrong? >> you know, it's a good question, george. i think that donald trump picked on people's fears, their anxieties, and he gave them somebody to blame, and some folks just really turned out for him for that. at the same time, our message of strengthening the middle class, working people, we just didn't penetrate well enough, and we didn't have the kind of turnout that we really needed or expected. worked hard on it but it didn't come through and in places like wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania, really should have because people are struggling and the democratic message and the democratic platform would help them but somehow it didn't come up the way it should have but it will. >> is hillary clinton -- >> because we're all ready to fight. >> is hillary clinton right that james comey cost her the election?
the conversation. the conversation should have been about middle class people. the conversation should have been about how to, you know, raise a minimum wage, strengthen social security but then we started talking about this whole e-mail stuff again and now the outcome is that donald trump has somebody who he's looking at to put on his cabinet who's a lobbyist to privatize social security. that's the outcome of this election and even much more. >> i know you were considering jumping into this race for dnc, chair, chair of the democratic national committee. you already have a lot of support, but you look at this very closely divided election. even though hillary clinton won the popular vote you now have republicans in charge of the white house, the congress, a majority of governors, more governors than they've had in a hundred years, more statehouses than they've ever had before and a lot of democrats complain that that party has been basically hollowed out under president obama. how do you fix it?
vision to strengthen the grass roots, to strengthen the grass roots at the party -- at the party unit, at the county level, at the precinct level and then to help motivate and facilitate the local grass roots to get out there and turn out the vote and boost turnout and then to help govern and in places where we do hold city councils and state legislatures and then also help be part of that loyal opposition. we need to invest at the local party unit and focus our energy on turnout. that's how we come back and we can come back. it's simply a matter of energy and resources. >> you've said that the party has spent -- had a little bit too much focus on fund-raising, not enough on the grass roots. >> well, i do believe that we should have to make the voters first. not the donors first. i love the donors, and we thank them, but it has to be that the guys in the barber shop, the lady at the diner, the folks who are worried about whether that
they've got to be our focus. they've got to be a laser beam focus on everything we do and everything we do should animate and empower them at the grassroots level for working people across this country. that's how we come back. >> there's a lot of energy in the street, as well. you heard rudy giuliani say he thinks a lot of them are professional protesters. what is your message to them? how do you channel that energy and can it and must it remain peaceful? >> well, absolutely it has to remain peaceful, but, look, you know, the first amendment says we can protest and call our government to address grievances. these people are telling donald trump if he tries to move on his plan, to have a deportation squad, to harm americans and if he tries to do that, we'll be there to stand and say no. we don't -- we oppose his misogyny and oppose his picking on people of different ethnic
to make it clear that if he tries to deliver on his word that we will be there to say no. >> how about -- >> so that's why people are on the treat. >> how about the areas he could work with democrats. he mentioned a big infrastructure and you've been supportive. even though he wants to repeal and replace obamacare, he might want to preserve some parts. >> that would be a welcome development. we'll see if he wants to deliver on that. the truth is that if he does, we want to see infrastructure development too. we think all over this country we need to rebuild everything from transit, fiber-optic, broadband in our rural areas and urban areas. those things are -- that's a worthy program. we'll see if he really means it, though. he will get a chance to deliver on that promise and if he doesn't, we'll make sure the people know about it. >> finally are you formally going to enter the race for dnc and if you do and become chair of the party, will you step down from congress? a lot of people believe including howard dean who is looking at this
time chair. >> well, you know, the most important criteria for a dnc chair is going to be vision. do you have the vision to help empower and channel the energy at the grassroots level? this is not about one person. this is about millions of people all working together to protect and advance the interests of working americans. that's what it's really about. vision, and the ability to mobilize and inspire people at the grass roots. that's what the most important criteria is going to be for any dnc chair, and, so, look, i've been talking to people all over the country, city council members, grassroots leaders, party leaders, members in congress, and you know what, the truth is, i'll have something to say real soon. >> okay, we will be listening. congressman, thanks very much for your time this morning. >> thank you. the "powerhouse roundtable" is next. plus tom friedman on the global forces that gave donald trump his opening. >> announcer: "this week with
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kers to ensure your interests are put first. we're taking action. we're renewing our commitment to you. emotions running high following the election so we asked americans about their feelings of his trump's win in a single word. about half said that they feel hopeful, relieved and happ the other half shocked, disappointed and worried. and looking to the future the words uncertain and scared near the top but hopeful and optimistic prevail and beneath the division one sign of civility, 73% of americans have a close friend or family member who voted for an opposing candidate. we'll be right back with our
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like an inhaled corticosteroid. do not take breo more than prescribed. see your doctor if your asthma does not improve or gets worse. ask your doctor if 24-hour breo could be a missing piece for you. see if you're eligible for 12 months free at mybreo.com. i think the american people you know, they're going t that new car smell. they want to drive something off the lot that doesn't have as much mileage as me. >> president obama more than two years ago and i guess they got that. about as new a car as you can imagine coming out of this election and let's talk about what happened and what comes next with our roundtable joined by the editor of "weekly standard" bill kristol, republican strategist mary matalin and democratic strategist van jones and katrina vanden heuvel, editor and publisher of "the nation." mary, let me begin with you.
but should more have seen it coming? >> yes, and for those of us who have been disgruntled conservatives who have watched the last successive tsunami at midterms and such, republicans were given majorities in both chambers and did little with it, this was no surprise to us. also, in the sense of media saying this about themselves, i drive to my kid's school in youstate new york through ru virginia, maryland, pennsylvania, new york, trump signs everywhere. you can't -- you just have to get out of the bubble and you have to quit listening to yourself. people are hurt. the irony of this, though, had mrs. clinton listened to her husband instead of her boss, she might -- could have stopped this rust belt redneck revolt, which is he himself is calling -- he was -- bill clinton was giving the clinton campaign the best advice, and had she taken it, i think she could have mitigated
trump would have won. >> clinton campaign says and we heard it all through this week, they tried to do that, wanted to do that, they were blocked by james comey. >> look, there's a lot of things that i think you got to deal with. hillary clinton was -- she had to put down a rebellion in her own party, then she'll have to put down the trump rebellion and then try to govern. so, she was going to have a very difficult pathway going forward anyway. the thing about this trump phenomenon is that there's a lot of good stuff in it, you know, the anti-elitism, the concern for working class jobs but it's just marbled with all this toxic stuff, the misogyny, outright bigotry and people are left to pull this apart. if you just say that look at all the good stuff and you don't acknowledge the toxic stuff, you're wrong. if you only look at the toxic stuff and you don't recognize there's going to be some good stuff for infrastructure, you're wrong. people have to do a big reset.
establishment including democrats not just because of the failure. >> we're seeing people in the streets. >> we're seeing people in the streets because this last week, george, was a week of grief and mourning and despair for many. but it's now time to organize and move forward. it's time for deep thinking, reformation of a democratic party. it's also time to hold donald trump accountable to what he governed on. i thought the next morning after the election there was a little squib in the paper, 2,000 workers are going to be laid out in ohio and in michigan. what is he going to do? i think this was a change election. as david axelrod said it was a primal scream by many who feel that a discredited elite failed them economically, politically. we need to find a new way forward. there are key ways progressives can speak. i would say one thing people need to do and this is how roosevelt's new deal began, let us go back cities and states where we can, build emblematic progressive reforms like the fight for 15 minimum wage, paid sick leave,
them into a national message. >> that's where the opposition will try to go, but, bill kristol, the focus on washington and real consolidation in washington. republicans in control of everything. but when you look at that key question that katrina talked about what is president-elect trump going to do, it's hard to glean that from his campaign. the promise is vague and sweeping but vague in places, also contradictory at times. where are the clues? >> well, i mean i think he will do something on immigration. he will try to renegotiate the the trade deals a little bit. been very clear, a big infrastructure program that he'll get bipartisan support. republican congressmen and senators will be in an interesting place where they have to support what will be president trump when they agree with him and guide him and oppose him on certain things it will be an unusual dynamic. it won't be like the rallying behind president obama in 2009 or behind president bush even at the beginning of his presidency or even clinton in '93 when he got his budget through but i
it's been an unusual election. the main thing for me, just one point, i was never for trump but it turned out never dynasties was the theme. donald trump beat jeb bush and beat hillary clinton and whatever everyone thinks of donald trump, not just change, defeating bush and then clinton, what everyone thinks of donald trump, that's pretty impressive. >> look, i think that if you want to understand what the grassroots progressive movement will be, fst vulnerable. you have, you know, 7,000 or more d.r.e.a.m.ers who signed up for -- well, there -- >> a huge concern and there will be a moral line drawn around the d.r.e.a.m.ersment >> they're not looking at a deportation force. does he sign an executive order that takes away protections to the d.r.e.a.m.ers? >> if he does, there will be a massive reaction.
>> the first thing he's going to do is roll back the fiats. the executive orders that were unconstitutional. >> one of those was the d.r.e.a.m.ers. >> he's going to start with the regulatory ones because he wants to grow the economy. the problem with keith ellison's message and what y'all are saying, and i respect what you're saying because we have been there, is -- and another irony of this campaign is that barack obama always won astronomically on his own but he is completely devastated senate, house, 30 governorship, over 900 legislatures -- >> that's why we need keith ellison. what you just said is the best case for keith ellison. keith ellison is an organizer's organizer. >> that's right. >> is 'one of the only muslims in congress so -- >> what's his message? >> voters over donors. >> his message is voters over donors, it's going
time to what's going on in cities, states and inside the beltway. the movement is where the energy is. he's also smart about rebuilding power. >> i got to put a stop to this because president-elect trump just got elected. >> kind of a big deal. >> i want to talk more about the opposition in a second but let's move on and focus more on what he's going to do. >> i think it'll be vital moving forward. one reason we have trump, not the only, because there was great rage and anger in the country, is the media. the media will need to be more fearless, more courageous de media, we need more watchdogs, not lap dogs and not normalize -- >> i agree. what's more important, there's this thing called obamacare, his signature domestic achievement and won the republicans the house in 2010 and the -- and for all the talk about immigration, obamacare was an extremely important issue for trump voters in 2016. i think rudy giuliani was right. >> let me press you on this --
the obamacare premiums and numbers started moving away from hillary clinton the moment those premiums went up. >> let's look at what donald trump is saying. he's saying he wants to repeal and replace it and maybe if you have a pre-existing condition, you will be able to buy insurance. that doesn't work. >> yes, it does. >> the actual republican think tank to replace obamacare all have -- all have the pre-existing condition provision in done somewhat differently from president obama. it won't be easy. >> you have to have subsi >> tax credits instead of a huge bureaucracy. this is a huge problem for me. if president trump shows up with a cleaver and says i can get rid of all these regulations and i can get rid of obamacare, no problem, that would be a mistake. you know, first of all, legally it's hard to do these things. he needs a lot of confident people -- [ all talking at once ] >> policy wonks he has contempt for -- >> i want to ask mary a question and then go on. what is the core promise he has to deliver on to those voters who came out in -- >> first and foremost and one out of five voters voted on this
issues and they thought the media was inventing the controversies. it's not like they didn't hold them accountable. the supreme court is number one. on repeal and replace, he has -- and he said he is going to have a transition element for those states like in florida, you know, republican governors who have put in some form of it, there has to be a transition through it. the beauty for trump is that ryan et al have worked on this and will be able to hit the ground running. they're not policy wonks and he's had the good judgment to get back with them and written the legislation already. >> the progressives have a challenge now. part of it is that you now have a lot of progressives who feel that 50 million, 60 million people voted to endorse the toxic parts of donald trump and
people who, you know, are proud to be, you know, a part of this alt-right thing so they're overreacting to that. underreacting to what the real threats are and real opportunities. if trump throws 20 million people off health care, that's going to be -- if he handles this badly, and it's very hard to handle it right, that's a huge advantage in the midterms. if trump goes after -- if he fails frankly to stand up for the muslim community, right now muslims are being bullied. women wearing hijabs are being bullied and people are saying trump, trump, when they do it. he has to come out this week to say i don't want that. if he fails some of these moral tests -- >> there will be political -- >> there will be political consequences. >> moral and political costs and i also think we need to hold him accountable. one of the reasons he won was he wanted to drain the swamp, right, of corruption inside the beltway. no more dealmaking. his transition committee on ethics is a rogue's gallery of lobbyists. he's appointed a climate denialist.
that's not left or right. that's human beings versus physics but i'm just saying we got to hold him accountable. i disagree with mary. it will be critical. too many rallies where you saw tree rope journalists -- >> oh, katrina. >> we have to find a way forward. i'm not saying we don't try to find a way -- infrastructure in all of that -- >> moral and political costs. >> trump is more important than all of us. >> i disagree. >> personally and morally i agree with van. if he disassociates him wildfire from forces he unfortunately coddled and fostered a little in this campaign and is responsible about the way he goes about his policy initiatives and obamacare, trade and other areas he has a huge opportunity. because the truth is a lot of this stuff -- >> he didn't coddle them. he repudiated them. >> he's got to be better -- don't you think president trump has to be better than candidate trump? >> i mean -- >> yes, okay.
>> let mary answer. let mary answer. >> one thing bill will not like and i think this is hopeful, this is not a popular position, but it is not pro-trump or pro-putin to argue that this country needs a better relationship with russia to pardon with russia, to resolve the syrian crisis and combat terrorism, even climate and i will say that donald trump speaking of what van said he did swat at the failed neocon orthodoxies of our times which failed us in iraq and have been discredited. >> can i have an honest moment, people, please? >> please, please. >> van has to my mind retracted your whitelash with what you just said, no, that we have to not focus totally on the toxic stuff. okay, but you -- if you don't, you're wrong. you are not -- that's not the path for progressives. we've all agreed at the outset of this show that the path which is ellison's message, you say, to go back to the rust belt and
>> you're not going to get there with climate change and putin. >> the people in south carolina who run hotels and understand self-interests, they will be overrun by rivers and water if they don't deal with climate crisis. >> we're just about out of time. the whitelash -- >> i said and stand by it. i said that race was a part and there was a part, that alt-right part that was a part of the whitelash. if you listened to the whole quote, you would agree -- >> i did listen and you said what do i tell the kids. what i would tell my kids, i'm a black man in america who went to yale and written books who served a president and now -- >> i'm a ninth generation american man and first born with all my rights. ninth generation american so we have not escaped because i went to yale all the problems of this country. >> you should be a racial polemicist. you should be a racial reconciler. >> how dare you say that to my face. >> say it behind your back would be better?
reconciler. >> really? how do you know that? >> do you know anything about do you know anything about me? >> apparently you don't know anything about me. >> yes, i do know your daddy, your grandparents were teachers. your grandfather was a bishop. >> this is a problem we have right now. it is in fact the case there was a populist revolt. both sanders and trump. one was marveled through with this alt-right stuff. if someone like myself married to a white woman who has spent my entire life building bridges can't point out the alt-right being accused of being a racial polemicist we are going to have a big problem. >> no sense of decency to say that to a man who has been a healer throughout a horrific brutal campaign, he has spoken sanity to power and to those who -- >> okay, my deepest apologies. you don't know anything about me. you don't know anything about my healing and i would say there are ways to get to
book "thank you for being late" and calls the great accession began ushering in a dizzying, disorienting time of change, economic and environmental. he's here to explain it right now and i want to get to the substance but closely connected and you wrote a series of columns during the campaign, very tough on donald trump. you called him a disgusting human being and now you're calling the election a moral 9/11 only 9/11 was done to us from the outside. we did this to ourselves. that's pretty apocalyptic language. >> well, you know, there's no question we saw language used in this campaign that debased and demeaned people, george, in ways we've never seen before. red lines were erased that i don't think will be easily restored. so this was a huge moral event. no question about it. >> how much of it, though, was the inevitable backlash to the kind of changes you describe in your book? >> my book basically argues we're actually in the middle of three nonlinear axle rations with the three largest forces on the planet which i call the market, digital globally
climate change bio diversity and moore's law and those have touched the two most neuralgic things that basically define us as people, our home and workplace. let's look at it. the acceleration in immigration that are going on. there are a lot of people out there in middle america that go to the grocery store now the cashier is speaking spanish. that's fine by me. i love a pluralistic society but i can understand why that makes them feel less at home and go to the men's room and there's someone that looks like a woman that may be a man. that's totally fine by me glad lgbt people have their rights but i think that change came too fast and go to the office and now there's a robot next to them who seems to be studying their job so the two things that most define people, their sense of home and community and their sense of work, these accelerations are deeply disrupting. >> we know that donald trump tapped into that, did hillary clinton not do a good enough job of reaching those people and saying, we can make this change
>> you know, to me what hillary missed is that i grew up in mipsz and talk a little about that, a lot about that in the book. in minnesota in the '60s and '70s if you were an average worker, blue collar, i quote a congressman, growing up in minnesota in the '60s you needed a plan to fail. there was so much wind at the back for the average worker. now you need a plan to succeed. and you've got to meet workers where that anxiety is. the problem is it's not so easy. you know, my book actually has a theme song it's by brandy carlisle. i tried to buy it and see if it would play it and the main refrain in that song is, "i wrap your love around me like a chain but i never was afraid that it would die. you can dance in a hurricane but only if you're standing in the eye." now it argued that donald trump ran against the hurricane. the hurricane are these three acceleration, challenge of politics today is to build an eye that moves with the storm, draws energy from it but creates a platform of dynamic stability within it. >> you see a lot of people not just in the united states but around the world running with that same kind of populism.
donald trump with nigel farage who is leader of the brexit campaign and marie le pen and two different responses to these changes you talk about. >> and the challenge is and i'll be honest, i don't see anyone has quite found the answer for what you do with an average worker in a world where machines, george, have all five senses now but that's the strategy i try to put forward in the book. that's what i'm struggling with. i think it's the essence of politics right now because average is officially over. i didn't do that. but average got you so much more, you know, the '50s, '60s and '70s. than it does today. >> you're also saying it should call for a radical transformation of our politics and you describe yourself a member of a fourth party. >> my own politics is i'm actually to the left of i think bernie sanders on some issues. i think in this world of acceleration we'll need better and stronger safety nets. i'd be for single payer health care but at the same time i'd be to the right of "the wall street journal"
on bullets, sugar and small financial transaction taxes. our challenge and the challenge of politics going forward is to get i think stronger safety nets because this world is going to be too fast for a lot of people and to pay for them. we need to get radically entrepreneurial. one side always emphasized the radical entrepreneurship. one just the safety nets and two have got to co-evolve together. >> we only have a few seconds left. you're not a trump supporter. what is the one piece of advice you have for president trump? >> you know, i think the most important thing he can do is obviously be a healer. but start with the climate it's so much more important than he realizes, george, because a lot of this immigration push -- i just did a documentary about this in africa, it's people being driven off the land and going north coming our way. don't dismiss it. it's a hugely important issue. and if he just makes the smallest gesture toward it, he will produce such i think goodwill on the other side. >> tom friedman. thanks very much. the book, "thank you for being
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